› Forums › Forums › RACE TECH QUESTION FORUM › HOW NEW ELECTONICS -Tree-Delay Boxes WORK
babycakes.
dinoIf you’re ‘old Skool” like me…All the new stuff can totally confuse a “green and nail it” racer. I have been slowly “getting it” working the tower at Island And the ultra modern ‘Control center’ at Lebanon.Looks like Nasa control ! We got Trans brakes-stutter boxes-air shifters -delay boxes …the Tree has “Cross-talk”… and on top of that we have Regular tree…all the yellows counting down and “Pro-Tree” -instant green. SO who can sort this all out for us geezers?….And as far as I’ve gotten so far ,is Why we added our new Dover Electronic Elim. for 2012 (4th Annual Drags).Some guys just ‘can’t leave home without it” …foot-breaking it, not in thier agenda.
mikey
Dino, NO ELECTRONICS!!!! This is supposed to be “the way it was”, not the “wave of the future”. My personal opinion would even outlaw a trans brake, and I have one. “LINE-LOC ONLY”!! …………..Mikey 😆
vbobHEY
Time to turn in your hammer and chisel and get an I phone 4 !!!!
Its still drag racing and thank God for that!!!!
Let them run what they want and leave Mikey Flintstone alone with his line loc!!!!
You tell a kid today you drag race a Willys or Vega they look at you like your dingaling is hanging out!!!
‘V’
dino❓ Back to the original Question… THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A Race Tech Question Forum…
hvy70ssLet me give it a try….Billy M. and Lee V. correct me if I’m wrong.
1. TransBrake: Electric solenoid in trans valve body. When button is pressed throttle is mashed to floor. Fluid is dumped back into pan from front pump and puts tranny between first and reverse…sort of a neutral. When button is released fluid flows back the normal path through valve body. Converter instantly reaches max stall. Car launches like a stick!!
2. “Stutter” box: I think we are refering to an MSD 2 step. Thats basically an ignition launch control on 1 chip and a high rpm limiter on the other chip. Launch control can set very low such as 2000 rpm off a footbrake with a button on the steering wheel or on brake pedal. What it does is retard or misfire the cylinders after the limit of the chip has been reached. Idea here is to footbrake and launch the car exactly the same rpm each run. I have heard this misfire can cause engine damage after awhile but never seen it myself. Finally, the 2nd chip is your high rpm limit or it could set up as a shift rpm chip when used with a MSD 6AL or 7AL.
These two items are debated alot as whether they should be allowed in a footbrake-non electronics type class. Some tracks do some don’t.
NHRA Stock allows 2-steps. Pro ET (former Heavy) in Div. 1 says no to 2 steps. Most of the time Transbrake cars always go into Super or electronics class. One thing for sure….ask the track your at what THEY allow. Hope this helps.
Bobby Smith
dinoSure …No problem I can see me now with all the instruction manuals on the passenger seat. 😆
masracing
Thought this might be a good first post for a dover brat. I am no expert but hopefully I can simplify how this stuff works and alleviate some confusion.
As was explained before a trans brake is a device that locks first gear and reverse at the same time allowing the car to leave closer to stall speed. Essentially letting go of the trans brake is no different then dumping the clutch or releaseing the line lock. Its just a button rather then a pedal.
A “stutter box” typically refers to the illegal use of a rev limiter to limit rpm down track in order to control E.T. A two step is just simply a rev limiter that is used prior to leaving the starting line to maintain a pre set launch rpm. It simply will not let the rpm go over a pre set limit. Also really functions as a safety device by not allowing the motor to over rev in the case of a drive line failure. Basically it if the engine rpm goes over that limit the ignition is shut off. when it drops below that limit it is turned back on. Just like if you cycled your ignition switch really fast. by doing this it maintains a constant rpm
A delay box is no more then a timer that goes between the trans brake button and the transbrake solenoid. All it does is delay the release of the transbrake. for a pre set period of time from the release of the button. This allows the driver to react to the first flash of light that they see. It eliminates the distraction of the top two bulbs. What is important to realize is that it still is human reaction. In fact what it does is tighten competition up and make it very close. At some of the high dollar bracket races and top dragster races we run if you are not .010 or better consistantly you might as well go home. remember 1″ of staging is worth .010 reaction time on average so bump into that stage beem 1″ too far and a .009 light becomes a .001 red. Not really easier or harder just different. delay box racer lets go on the first flash and bottom bulb or footbrake racer lets goe on the third flash. In all honestly typically drivers who are good top bulb racers names like Biondo and Richardson are also good bottom bulb racers since regardless of how you do it its all human reaction.
Also important to realize in regards to delay boxes is that if you put all zeros in that timer then it will function just like a traditional transbrake. No different then letting go of the clutch. Does not have any other effect on the car. What many people do not realize is that they way these boxes are wired you can not simply remove then because you will no longer have a functioning tranbrake.
Now it does get more complicated when we get into the idea of crossing over. Anyone who as raced on a staggered tree knows that being the faster car can be a major dissadvantage due to the distratction of the other car leaving the starting line. For this reason the cross over delay box was developed. This allows the faster car to let go on the first flash of light that he or she sees which is the intent of a delay box. This is done by simply plugging in your own dial as well as the dial of the otehr car. Still just a pre set timer. Still relies on human reaction. Just allows the driver to react to the first flash of light.
As for “cross talk” This was developed a few yeears ago based on a problem that came from the cross over delay box manufacturers found that they could create what they called an “interface mode” this allowed the driver to leave off his own light as well as his oponents lights. This boxwould use the known time between this top lights to bascially realease at an average time and increase the odds of a good light. Still human reaction but odds were increased for the faster car. t o do away with this advantage “cross talk” was developed. In cross talk both drivers top lights will come on at the same time and the stagger is between the first and second light. In this case the tree is completely blinded meaning you can not see the other drivers lights at all. This prevents the “double hit” and levels the playing field. In a mixed field (delay box and non) the faster car really should be given the option to elect to have cross talk turned off by placing an n on their window.This will have no impact on the slower car but will allow the faster car to have a normal full tree if they are not running a delay box.
Hopefully this information is helpful
B.J. Masiello
dinoV-Bob …all together now …”HOLY HOCKEY PUCKS” that kid has some smarts.BJ …I’m impressed ! was that your Thesis in college ? Ah….Think I’ll just stay with a line-loc and a Four speed , right OddJob?
lee-valentine
I think the only way to run the race is to have a footbrake and an electronics Dover New eliminator. There is no way to police delay boxes effectively and a footbrake car dose’nt stand a chance against them round after round. 2-steps and transbrakes are OK with me.Lee.
babycakesWow B.J.,thank you for breaking it down for us ‘ole’ timers.I had to read your explanations ‘3’ times,but that goes with the territory when your an ole fart like me.Appreciate all you guys breaking it down layman’s terms,how these trans brakes and electronics function.B.J. and Billy,once again good luck with hitting that magic ‘6’!!!!
