› Forums › Forums › GENERAL DISCUSSION › Speaking of Doc Burgess and The Black Arrow…
jrstk.jrstk
Hey Paul,
as I understand it Jenkins was thrilled to beat the factory teams at the Winternats, having been passed over for a deal himself. His decision to go with the Chevy II was based upon the fact he couldn’t get a factory deal worked out. Or should I say, they couldn’t come to terms.
paul-ceasrine
JrStk,
Absolutely correct. I was incorrect on one point about Jenkins. He won the 66′ Springnationals
with the Chevy II, running a 11.44 in A/S over Jere Stahl. No matter what you say, the guy could make his cars run.
A fact that you might not know, or possibly Storm King. Found a copy of a newspaper
article in August 1966. The article states that Grumpy Jenkins won a Super Stock meet
at Cecil County, Maryland, in an event sponsored by Cars Magazine. This event took place 2 weeks after the Super Stock Magazine Nationals in York, on August 22, 1966.
The article has a picture of the “Black Arrow”, with “Doc” Burgess name on the top of the door panel. The article reads Bill Jenkins drives the “Doc” Burgess “Black Arrow to the finals
in S/S Eliminator.
Paul
jrstk
Good stuff Paul
storm-king
Maybe I left this out and should have put it in the discussion a post or two ago. If memory serves correctly; and it still does every once in a while…Doc didn’t even see the car lettered until after it returned from the Winternationals! So the answer to why it didn’t have his name on it is that Jenkins named it (as far as I know) with very little input from Doc, contracted the sign painter, and had it done his way. I guess he didn’t want to share the limelight with Doc. As I did mention before, Jenkins didn’t have the decency to even call Doc to tell him he won the event, Doc read about it later; because part of the prize was a trip to hawaii and Jenkins split to there right after the event.
It’s all fun stuff. In reality, it (the details) probably matter more to us today, us the uninvolved, than to Doc or Jenkins back then.
Doc had expressed some disappointment that the automotive press had virtually ignored him while hyping Jenkins whenever the car was mentioned.
paul-ceasrine
Storm King,
Found an early 1965 Champion Spark Plug ad. The ad shows the “Black Arrow” at the
1965 Winternationals (February 65′). The ad states S/SA (Super Stock) winner at
Pomona. Bill Jenkins drives (drives not owns) the east coast based 65′ Plymouth
“Black Arrow” to the WNHRA Winternationals title using Champion Spark Plugs.
The ad states that Jenkins reputation as an engine builder and tuner is well-known in the east coast circuit, but as a driver he shocked the west coast factory-based teams in winning the title for the eastern-based team. (Team, most likely Doc and Grumpy?).
Paul
paul-ceasrine
Black Arrow Fun Fact of the Day.
The Champion Spark Plug ad right after the 1965 Winternationals (late February 65′)
mistakenly lists Dick Housey as the S/S winner. But the picture in the ad shows the
white “Black Arrow”. There is a Jenkins Competition sponsor lettering on the lower
half of the back rear quarter panel, but there does not appear to be a Bill Jenkins or
“Grumpy” lettering on the door panel.
Amazing, Jenkins drives the “Black Arrow” to a S/S victory with an 11.39 ET at 126.06 MPH.
Beats out Dick Housey in the Ted Spehar (Ohio-based) Plymouth with a quicker
11.37 ET at 126.76 MPH.
Pretty quick times for those early 65′ 3400lb. factory Hemi’s, with only 7″ slicks.
I wonder who received the sponsorship/advertisement check from Champion Spark Plugs.
Did “Grumpy” share the check with “Doc” ???
Paul
storm-king
Probably not, I think Grump kept all the winnings he made with the car. Again, something Dino can ask when he talks to Doc next since he doesn’t appear to be popping up on this site himself anytime soon.
People don’t apprieciate how good those cars were on the little tires they ran. I see these guys today with four links, huge displacement stroker motors, huge tires with modern compounds, and they’re running low nines and I think, what’s the deal? Those ET’s SUCK for what they’ve got. Well, it’s all just a bracket race today anyway. Pretty soon NHRA will do their own version of the “Car of tomorrow” and they’ll all be ’69 Camaro bodies with chevy engines. It’s what they want, equalized outcomes and close racing these days. That’s why the only time I go to a track these days is to provide service to our customers.
tomblake“Car of tomorrow” You mean like they have done to top fuel and fuel funny car. Same tires, same displacement, same gear, same rev limiter, same, same same………..
That’s one of the reasons Dover was so much fun. Everyone had their own idea and all the cars were different. I know about safety and the rules. Isn’t great we were able to race at Dover before everything got so technical.
patinaNow, Now, Tom don’t be so critical I go up to the Valley and see alot of guys trying different stuff. NHRA, NASCAR, etc are all run by board room directors, all getting paid and all watching their bottom line. You can make more money at these big bracket races than they can winning SS eliminator at a NHRA national event. I do it for the love of cars and drag racing. I started at 12 and been hooked ever since (just turned 60)The Dover race is going to be so good nobody is going to miss it.
I’m getting off the soap box now and going back out to the shop. Dino the car was painted yesterday by brother Mike, get your brushes warmed up.
Pat
dinoBoys, boys….The monkees did a “come-back” song that I really like…Called “That was Then,This is Now”. Hot rodding ,custom cars, and Drag racing were all about Individual expression. I do agree that it’s pretty pitiful, to tell what brand a funny car is now, you have to Read the decals ,since the bodies are popped out of the same mold. Best stuff think now is ADRL Pro-Mod . Heads up…funky body styles -old coupes, 60’s muscle cars and a little for everyone. THATS WHY Our Dover Days and memories are SO COOL ! I must “get up the Road’ (he’s 2 hours north of me)to interview Doc AND get all the answers to these “mysteries”. Will scan trough all the posts (Wow-there’s a lot) to make a list to ask. Now …I will “save ” some of this to be in the Big Video…but Forum exclusive “tid-bits” will be told here.—–>So …hit me with the pertinent questions you need answers for from the “Doctor hisself “.
storm-king
You know, it’s why the HAMB is so popular with racers. They go to Mo-Kan (Carl Blanton’s track in Missouri) and it’s like the ’60’s all over again. George Ray’s track in Arkansas too. My dart likely won’t pass a modern tech inspection, and I don’t care. I’ll find a place to run it now and again. It’s all hand made, home grown, let the pencil pushers, marketing executives and accountants bugger off.
paul-ceasrine
Dino,
Absolutey right about today’s racing. Pro Mod is the only thing worth watching.
I took my 11 year old daughter and her friends to the dragstrip, and what was their favorite cars. Not the dragsters, but the Pro Mods, a 57′ Chevy called “Cherry Bomb” and a
Volkswagon Beetle named “Weiner Schnitzel”. Yes, the youth of America speaks.
P.S. You know Jimi Hendrix opened up for the Monkee’s in 1966 for 3 weeks, during their
1966 tour.
Paul
dinoHeads up racing…Evenly classed cars like old Class eliminations …Why NHRA only shows Pro,Funny & Fuel on TV. Wish we could do that at our Nostalgia Drags …We’ll see how many Heads Up pairs we can put together from time trails to make it interesting.
paul-ceasrine
Black Arrow Fun Fact of the Day,
Pictures of the Black Arrow found at the 1965 Winternationals, in “How Grumpy got the
name Grumpy”.
Drivers side photo of the car at the line. Appears to be small lettering of Bill Jenkins
name above the Black Arrow insignia. Also, clearly lettered is “Grumpy” on the drivers
side door panel. The Plymouth is on the starting line, running against another S/S
Mopar. Can’t make the name out on the other car, but has the #618 painted on the rear quarter panel.
Paul
More fun facts to come. 😯
dinoPAuL: Here’s BLACK ARROW FUN FACT OF THE DAY ….From Doc Himself !..He just called to clarify a few things. Seems Son Richie and him were looking at all the posts here and noticed the ‘garage photo’ at the start of this topic I posted and the other ones from Matt Spiedel in ODF Galleries. The photos DON”T show Carl’s Garage .Thats “Grumpies Garage ” as they get ready for the Winternationals. Doc says, Carl never really had a Shop …just a booth sometimes at Dover And sold stuff out of his Truck.The “partnership” with Carl was Short…ending at the ’65 Springnationals in Bristol ,where Doc was Holeshotted in the Eliminator.”they were gunning” for Him.After that ,Doc didn’t see much of Carl Again. Matt was born later .Carl not married at time of hanging with Doc. Said “I’ve got to get one of those shirts ” (Nstalgia Drags).We set it up to visit soon as his Schedule permits. Richie just down the road…A lot of ‘grandchild & family things’ .
