› Forums › Forums › OLD RACE CAR LOCATOR › BLACK ARROW CLONE ( street version built by Smrtic for Doc)
dino.dino8:25by hemi65blackarrow » Mon Dec 01, 2008 pm
What remains of the BlackArrow, built by Bill Smrtic, is in my possession and has been for 25 years. I bought the car from the Helmick Brothers in Ohio, at this point it had the dana that the other member referred to. At the time I bought it, it was being raced as a SS/BA. I bought it less the motor and tranny. I had been racing my 1969 Road Runner at Connecticut Dragway which closed two weeks after purchasing the Arrow. I had plans on racing SS/BA, it wouldn’t certify in the condition that it was in. I had the car completely updated to run Super Stock. I purchased a completely built aluminum head hemi with intentions to go racing. My plans on racing were cut short by marriage. Ever since its purchase it has resided inside a closed garage, and dreams of racing it are still alive. I would enjoy hearing from Bill Smrtic. I have talked to Freddy Murphy on numerous occasions, he has filled me in on the early years of racing with Doc and all the different tracks they raced at and all the famous cars they competed against. I recently purchased the original Hilborns from the Arrow that were on a shelf in his shop since they were removed from the car. Fred Murphy also gave me quite a few pictures of him and Doc with the car. I would like to hear from anyone who has information on the car, since my purchase I have talked to 5 of the previous owners. Also talked to Marco Decarsis (or how ever you spell his last name) who was at York US 30 reunion with the tribute car.
JUST AN UPDATE HERE….Work has continued on finishing this car – found the rear AND the motor…( A little birdie told me today) he’s keeping the project ‘low key” …when I have more and get the ok ….I’ll post Or his son will.
dinoWill contact my ‘Contact” …also a mopar guy in Ct. for what I can ‘devulge”.Seems current owner wants to “Debut” it with build done in top secret.Hope he does the lettering configuration with “DOVER DRAG STRIP” on the sides…I did see that current ‘clone’ being run at the Drag Times Hall of Fame show last year….It’s just ‘not right’ in a few areas.
vindicator😀 😀 😀 Hey…am I missing something here???!!!***…didn’t Bill & Gary Smrtic say the original “Black Arrow” car…which they owned & raced quite successfully…after purchase from “Doc” Burgess…was junked/destroyed a long time ago…there are no two people on this planet…more honest…or with more integrity…than Bill & Gary Smrtic…they long ago could have well re-created the “Black Arrow”…and made a pretty significant amount of $$$…in doing so…they chose not to do that…yet…someone (s) always seems to be “finding”…these historic cars or the “original “hubcap” 😆 😆 😆 …and presenting them as the real “mc-coy”…not often for the real racer enjoyment/useage ‘eh…but ultimately…capital gain…there’s 8 million “stories” in the naked city…these cars seem prone to inventing new stories on a regular basis…I know Freddie Murphy well…he’s a real good guy…he may or may not remember the actual “fate” of the ‘Black Arrow” or maybe was not all that “close” to the Smrtics’…me I’m going with the Smrtics’ statement…whatever that is…who and what they are…has always spoke volumes to me!!!…it…is…what they say…whatever that is…end of story/saga….’nuff…said…Drake Viscome
dinoOK guys …it took some digging ( its all here someplace )…but I KNEW we had Smrtic’s Total explaination, when way back the present owner surfaced concerning the Black Arrow ‘street-clone”. so here goes:
by storm king 2 Dec 2008
First post:
Doc called us and asked if we’d build him a streetable version of the car, because all these local kids would come by his place, knowing who he was, and want to take him for a ride in their Camaro or Chevelle to show him how fast they were. He told us about one kid who came over with such a car, and it had an oil pressure gage sitting loose up on the dash. When the kid hammered it, the gage just sat there. Doc got sick of these shenanagans and wanted a car he could show to these kids so they’d know what fast was.
So, we scrounged up another hemi from here and there, and built Doc a sorta-replica. It was yellow, had the Arrows light metal on it, and that’s about it. Doc played with it for a while, and sold it back to my brothers partner, Richie Walsh
Second Post:
Ahh, where do I start. First, I am glad to know who has the car. It really served us well, went straight went under the record several times, and was pretty low maintainance. If there is any doubt that it is the clone I can tell you a few places to look. It never had a dana when I ran it. Also I don’t believe the leaf springs were the standard hemi springs. It didn’t leave the line like most hemi cars. Typically the whole body would rise evenly. On the Arrow & the clone they sat nose low, & the nose came up more than the rear on acceleration. While the other hemi cars were raising up, it would jump out a car length while the front was coming up. Lord I would like to experience that again!! It had a street hemi in it when I sold it to Doc. I put a rod out the side of the block on the original motor at Conn. Dragway. We replaced it with a Ramchargers engine, built by Dan Knapp. John “the Voice of Drag Racing” Lundberg talked Dan into selling us another customers engine ( just found that out this year). When I originally bought the car from Doc I got everything pertaining to the car. The fibreglass was on the car, but I also got all of the original acid dipped factory sheet metal, & both the cross ram & carbs, & the Hilborn that was on it. (will post photo’s of the day we picked it up soon) When Doc put the glass doors on the car they used the window frames off the factory doors. When I built the clone I bought a clean set of doors from Jerry Stein (Teachers Pet). Sold the originals to somebody out west. I believe the Hilborn went to someone in Oregon, so unless Doc had a second set ??? Now when Doc decided to sell the clone,my former partner Richie Walsh bought it. Richie then bought my share of the Tritak motor that was in our Pro Stock Duster, & dropped it in the clone with the original cross ram, & aluminum heads. He may have put the 4 spd out of the Duster in it, I don’t know as I had moved to Tn. He only tried to run it a couple of times then sold it. Over the years since then my brother would get a lead on who had the car, but that was before the inter-net. Thats the rough history as I know & remember it. If there is anything I can help you with just let me know & I’ll do what I can. By the way, have you talked to Richie Walsh or Doc Burgess as they have both owned that car also. I bet doc has some interesting stories about on the street.
patinaAs far as the “Black Arrow Saga” goes http://youtu.be/oU_rqm7WPPI
Pat
vindicator😀 😀 😀 Hey Pat…as a full fledged partner…in the world famous…Linguine brothers starship enterprise…who’d have “thunk”…U to be in “step”…with Tommy Roe???!!!*** 😆 😆 😆 but then again…U…and Mike are very much… a multi-faceted dynamic duo… 😆 😆 😆 just received a big specialty delivery of the “good stuff” (Brooklyn Italian)…so we’ll be “eatin’…good…in the neighborhood”…for lil’ while!!!…won’t ever forget your & Mike’s thoughtfulness…hope all is well for U & family… 😀 😀 😀 Drake
dinoDIZZY ? nah…..just gotta search “Black Arrow”…get a bag of chips … an adult beverage of your choice or some milder brew,and ‘Dig In” and read all the history the Smrtics were kind enough to post through the years. Seems more and more projects (Dover related) in the works. Smrtics EVEN working on stuff. I’ll track down some news on the Falcon, Drake…he said Last year he was going to finish it. But I’ll turn this back to the Arrow subject and post New topics-replies elsewhere about the other cars.
vindicator😀 😀 😀 The “saga” (attempted “saga”)…never wants to end…over on Class Racer…another “story” of possible finding…of…yep…U…guessed it…the “Black Arrow”…I’m convinced…and we don’t need no Steven Spielberg production for this deal…to create a “story” about… boys & girls…Bill & Gary just been hidin’ away this awesome car for all these years…and now…and only now…have agreed to present it…to Barratt Jackson…for auction…it “seems” it is what the public at large…really wants 😆 😆 😆 so…kinda’ like questionable…Ray Allen’s Super Stock 454 Chevelle World Champ Convertible car…somebody…way smarter than me…coined the phrase…”give ’em…what they want!!!” 😆 😆 😆 then we can move on to the Waterbury ,CT Campbell Ford T-Bolt (naw’…it never “really” burned up)…the Larsen T-Bolt… it too didn’t “burn” up either going down rte 22 towing “backwards” (’cause it was a automatic ‘eh) with dealership tow truck…or the “hulk” end up @ Saw Mill Auto Wreckers…a mere figment…of the imagination 😆 😆 😆 maybe it all wuz a “myth”…and these cars…just been in “storage” ‘eh…it’s a real…Bernie Madoff…in the makin’ for sure…a…tale of the tape” 😆 😆 😆 so I’m goin’ on the proverbial “record”… right here…and now…if the Smrtics are willing…I’m the wallet…8 million “stories” in the Naked City…dis’…can be just one more of ’em 😆 😆 😆 Drake
patinaI’m following this and I’m no more sober than I was before I drank some vino. And to add intrigue to Drakes post, the late Frank Cali told me that the “Allen” chevelle that sold for 1.2 mil and later sold for 200K was not the original car as advertised. Lets get the “history detectives” and Ollie Stone in on these.
Pat
vindicator😀 😀 😀 Hey Pat…Ray’s x-wife…opened the can of worms…and provided the “proof”…that the “alledged” World Champ SS Chevelle wasn’t “real” !!! so a “monied” guy with $$$ but no real knowledge or interest in drag racing (or ever racer)…just to buy …”flip”…got stung a lil’ bit ‘eh 😆 😆 😆 …U…know what they say ’bout a woman…scorned (shame on Ray Allen too…real good racer/car guy just going along with this fraud…say…it ain’t so..Ray!!! for some “endorsement” $$$) 😆 😆 😆 reminds me of the “famous” Gapp & Roush Tiajuana Taxi (4-door Maverick Pro Stock)…bought by the Marino Brothers of Yonkers…run very well as Comp Car (C/A) until it got t-boned/totaled…in the pits @ E-Town…I bought the motor & lenco out of the wreck…a few years ago…a pretty well known “collector”,decent (?) guy, who I did some business with over the years…out of Oklahoma…was going to “attempt” to fabricate “story”of how he found the Taxi…he’s as “slick” as the oil his family pumps out of the ground in Oklahoma…wuz tryin’ to “connect” Jack Roush with it for “support”/credibility…they all decided…maybe just better to build “clone” (which of course…never happened…wouldn’t be worth a whole lot of dough as a “clone”!)…this “cat” has a pretty good car collection…about half of which are “fakes”…but…he is ok guy…just…in a one word description…”slick” 😆 😆 😆 …JUST YET ANOTHER “STORY”…in the Naked City…. 😀 😀 😀 p.s…or the Dobbs Ferry Ford T-Bolt that came off the tow bar on th LIE (Jerry Caminito owner then) maybe…wasn’t really “totaled”…and is “hidden” away (it ain’t…but it makes for a “story”!!! ‘eh) 😀 😀 😀 Drake
vbobHEY
‘V’
bossguy
I thought he worked “Bunko” 😆
dinoHow simple is this ? Original GONE…Street Clone Built for DOC. It bounced around and has been stored until guy got the money to finish it. Has some original left over parts and would be a Fun car to see restored. I’m calling Doc to get some info and an excuse to say Hi and see how he is. Will report back with my findings . OK ?
vindicator😀 😀 😀 Hey Guys…one last “question”…so if a “clone” is the “answer”…just which “clone” has any “real” value???…not just in a monetary sense eh’…but in “real” life??? 😆 😆 😆 “Maryland Mario” who has the current “clone” exhibiting at various venues…certainly a very nice car…well done front to back…not very “accurate” though…paint color… very late model Weld Pro Magnum wheels…lettering…don’t “think” it’s accurate…for even Jenkins prior useage/ownership (?)…just as I “see” it…doesn’t have the right “period look/stance/ride height”…Mario has a number of vehicles…all very,very nice…even at least a Ford or two 😆 😆 😆 …none “accurate” per ‘se…but hey it’s his $$$…it’s still America (I think…although the “english” language may be in genuine jeopordy as number 1 means of people in USA communicating 😆 😆 😆 )…but at the end of the day…whether it’s clone #1…or #2…does it matter???…best I “know”…there wuz only one…Marilyn Monroe…or Joe DiMaggio…been a awful lot of steamy gals since for sure (none sang “Happy Birthday” like M though)…and a lot of great ball players (“baseball…has been “berry-berry” good to me”…’eh)…U…get the idea 😆 😆 😆 …just one real “Black Arrow” with any true “significance”…all others…very,very nice “after-thought”…and a awfully nice tribute to one very,very special historic car…from Bill Jenkins to Doc Burgess…and finally to the Smrtic family…”Grump”…seemingly receives most of the accolades ( he probably won the least total number of races with it…other than Winternationals)…but Doc won a awful lot of races…everywhere…and the Smrtics’…won many races…both as a stock wheelbase & altered wheelbase car too… all…due credit should be readily given/acknowledged 😀 😀 😀 Drake
storm-king
The stories are amazing, aren’t they? Truth is: the cars weren’t that valuable then. They were race cars, beautifully built, never again to be duplicated, factory built super stockers and FX’ers. But we bought them for winning races. When they were not as competitive, or rules changed, they were discarded. It a shame. Hindsight is 20/20 and all. But so what, really? It is this fact that makes the survivors more valuable. (BTW, my Mopar fixation is well known, but I’d give a left nut for Drake’s Falcon, always one of my favorite cars!)
I had suspicions about the Chevelle when I saw it roll the first time at BJ. I find that funny, although I’m sure the guy who was fraudulently dupped out of some big bucks for it doesn’t.
Well, more fodder for the bottom feeding scum suckers out there…
