› Forums › Forums › OLD RACE CAR LOCATOR › BLACK ARROW CLONE ( street version built by Smrtic for Doc)
dino.
vindicator😀 😀 😀 Hey Bill & Gary…glad to know you read this non-sense!!!…if you go over on class racer…look under nostalgia super/stock section…yet another (from a real good racing family too)…trying to create story/support for the “finding” of the “Black Arrow”…Dino hopefully provided the credibilty/direction to extinguish the latest “efforts” 😆 😆 😆 maybe I’ve just been on the planet a “tad” too long…just never thought I’d witness society “at large” having a ready willingness to deceive…business,family,”friends”-anybody/anything!!!…all in the pursuit of $$$… 😆 😆 😆 guess the philosophy…of “the harder I work…the luckier I get”… 😆 😆 😆 went the way…of my brown color hair (white now)…it’s truly…a tangled web…we weave “hoss”…but you guys…the Smrtics’…have never/ever wavered in your integrity…know that won’t pay your next months utility bill…but I “know”…and so many others…that know/known you & family…just how very special…”beings”…U…are!!! hope all is well…very well…in all ways… for you all 😀 😀 😀 Drake…p.s. yeah…yeah…know you are…always have been Chrysler guys…me…FixOrRepairDaily (FirstOnRaceDay?)…but like the old “BUD” commercials…just in “case” you didn’t know…love you…man 😆 😆 😆
dinoKinda fits here a little bit as we talk about Restored & Clones….Don’t want to get too Off-Topic, But Almost fell over when I got this link From V-Bob:
a ’57 chevy Stocker ‘Restored” and they did a great job from finding it rusted in the weeds Selling for $365,000. on E-Bay ….as “PT” said…’there’s a sucker born every day….
“The car ran the 283 cu. in./283 hp class with Rochester Fuel Injection most of it’s life, briefly running dual quads in 1969 as it does today. ” Oh …so its a H/S Champion but has I/Stock on the window .?…Paul C. our Class-statistian wil be all over this
storm-king
Thank you Drake, you’re too kind!
Integrity and character are important to us, and yes, it has cost us fortunes on occasion, but we continue.
The fun news is that the King may be dead, but long live the King, Bill is building what will likely be the last of the line of Storm Kings right now.
His first small block Mopar racer, he’s due to make the run up to Indy Cylinder Heads this week to pick up the engine.
John Cope of Cope Racing Trans is building the torqueflite, which is really still a bit weird to me, as Dad had always built our racing automatics, and he was as good as anyone at it.
We just haven’t turned a wrench on one in so ling we figured we needed to get someone up to speed on them, and we like John Cope because his is also a small family operation.
Being the carbon fiber guys we are, we’re going in a different direction on this car in that instead of going for big motor, big H.P, we’re using a small motor, relatively small H.P. engine in a super light car.
Not electronics, no trans brake, the most advanced race electronics on the car will be a line lock. Leaf springs. No air shifter (what the hell is wrong with people that they can’t even shift an automatic these days?).
If we get it going in time, Dover Reunion at Lebanon. If we don’t have a few weeks to sort it out, we’ll probably just go up to Ohio for the Mopar Nat’s, which is the same weekend as Dover’s meet.
mikey
Just my opinion, but I think that you should go with the trans brake. If you liked, and miss, the “launch” of a 4 speed, a trans brake will give you that same feeling. Install it, try it, and if you don’t like it, don’t push the button. I’m serious guys, you really need to try it. ………….Mikey 😆
storm-king-2
Mikey
I’m told you will also break a lot more stuff with it. That being said, budgetary considerations rule it out for now.
Bill
dinoHey …Bills Back !..we had a grea talk on the phone today and we hooked him up with a ‘lost password’ problem. Says He might have a lead on the Storm King.Super Stocker .It could be still racing in a Nostalgia Curcuit. Which Storm King ? I don’t know.
vindicator😀 😀 😀 Hey Storm King guys…nothin’ was stated…that isn’t so…your honor/integrity speaks volumes about who/what you are…in a word…special (very)… 😀 😀 😀 think Russ Flagle still with Indy Cylinder Heads…way back when…they (he and his brother) had a rockin’…Ford Cleveland powered Comp Eliminator dragster…just in “case” he or you “forgot” 😆 😆 😆 real smart guys@ Indy…have built a awesome business with well earned solid reputation…small motor???…this doesn’t “sound” like the Smrtic “boys”…I knew/know 😆 😆 😆 …and don’t be sayin’…the “last” Storm King… 😆 😆 😆 Yogi Berra sez…”it ain’t over…’till…it’s over”… 😆 😆 😆 for sure trans-brake deal leaves “harder”…than footbraking…but nothing like side-stepping the clutch @ 8,000+ RPM in a 3-pedal car!!!… 😆 😆 😆 you will use your heads-up usual “logic” to go with what you feel is best… 😀 😀 😀 your dad…like mine…one of kind…in a lifetime…there isn’t a day goes by…I’m sure he’s in your thoughts…often…’eh… 😀 😀 😀 Drake
storm-king-2
Yeah Drake, we were really blessed to have fathers that were so involved with the things we were interested in. I wouldn’t have ever won a race if it weren’t for all the studying & hard work my Dad put in on my cars. He wasn’t always the easiest person to work with, but he got results. Even today I’m amazed at the wins we had with the shoestring budget we were on.
As far as the “little ” motor I’ll be running, it’s a 360 block stroked to 415 cubes. First small block, first stroker for me
. We’ve got a narrowed 8 3/4 rear, nodular iron center section, & another first for me, a spool. Not sure if the 8 3/4 would take kindly to the trans brake, & I don’t want the weight of the dana. There is only room for 12″ wide tires, I just moved the springs under the frame, didn’t move the frame in like on the Duster. This was supposed to be a street & strip car, but it has gotten out of hand, it’ll never be on the street as long as I have it.
You going to make it to Lebanon? Your kids still have those Mustangs? Maybe we could have another first for Dover, “Storm King vs Vindicator”. Just kind of cruise down side by side, not a real race, right , Drake, Drake not a real race, right Drake.
Bill
no breakouts
storm-king
One of the things that always simply amazed me about Dad was that he could watch a run and tell you the ET within .05 before the announcer called it!
Never saw him miss…
He won some races for me at Lebanon, too, when he’d pick up on them changing the light sequence between time trials and eliminations…
There was a guy with a Cosworth Vega that wanted to fight when he ran dead on his dial in and I got the win light! (I also ran dead on my dial, but because of Dad, I cut a better light).
Good times!
vindicator😀 😀 😀 Hey Bill…funny how it all goes around ‘eh…my dad was just awesome in many ways too…but ooh…a “impossible” tough coyote in the “guidance” department 😆 😆 😆 came to realize…it wuz simply a matter that he really just wanted me to be…the old proverbial saying…”the best that I could be”…kind of “faced” with similar dilemma…my twin boys… both got their college Bachlors degrees…are both working on their Masters Degrees’ (pretty close to finishing up)…and I just can’t understand why they don’t have much time to race/hang out with the “old man” now…with these two Mustangs in the garage… 😆 😆 :lol:…guess…I want (ed) it all for them/me…best “start”/education…and be pretty good racers too…the racing really is done most probably to “appease” me…they really don’t have time…or genuine “fever” for it (I think)…have had cars from Nostalgia Fuel Funny Car-Top Sportsman to Super/Stock in last several years…peddled ’em…as we really didn’t have it in place as stated above 😆 😆 😆 so we do fool with the two Mustang cars on occaison…U get the idea… 😆 😆 😆 that will be a real good “small block” you are doing…do think it will surprise you…make a bunch of power…the Lebanon deal is a thought…probably truly do need to just get “aggressive”…figure it’s like riding a bicycle…just get back on…do it again ‘eh… 😆 😆 😆 if we had stayed in Northeast…had a great “cast” of surrounding people…always…at the “ready”…this would’ve have been ez…do have very good (generous) marketing partner for the two cars here in North Carolina series for 2012…your dad had a sixth…maybe seventh “sense”…and lil’…at least a little (good news)…rubbed off on his sons…your starting line “prowess” wuz always worth…at least a lil’ too “hoss” 😀 😀 :D…U never know…where the wild goose go…the dawg days of August…could very possibly yield a surprise or two…or maybe not… 😀 😀 😀 Drake…”it’s a Cats in the Cradle” true epilogue 😆 😆 😆
storm-king
Well I have a little more to add to all this mess. I recently spoke with the fellow who has the car that is now painted like the Black Arrow was in early ’65. His name is Marco DeCesaris, and a Facebook friend, Don Moats, requested I get in touch with him. Marco said he and his Dad ran Cecil County Dragway. He’s seemed a very nice guy, and his purpose in doing the car that way was simply that he loved the look of that car, and is a big fan of Jenkins. He also said he has an info board he displays with the car that makes it clear he is not trying to pass it off as anything other than what it is, his tribute/admiration for the car and man.
I mentioned to him the idea of him bringing it to the Dover Reunion at Lebanon, and I think that is a possibility.
So there you have it. I think we’ve got it all wrapped up now! Original=gone forever. Quasi-“Clone” Bill built for Doc= somewhere in Conn. with a four link and Dana in it. Car in Black Arrow livery today= a nice tribute car from an admirer.
Now what I want to know is, when do we get to see Drake’s Falcon done back In his livery and at Lebanon?
dinoThe Falcon is still in Mikes posession and I’ll see if I can get a progress report. Use the seach feature to see the last posts on it.
dinoSaw Marcos car up close at Hendersonville two years ago. My two cents then was …Ho hum -nice idea, but way off authentity…I knew the car ,,,,He didn’t and relied on photos. the car doesn’t “sit’ right, And I was a “little’ dismayed at his total lack of credit or even mentioning Doc on his ‘Info Poster’ It was all about Jenkins.The wheels aren’t even right. Sorry…just cause it says “Black Arrow” doesn’t cut it for me. I think Doc would be almost insulted by it.
storm-king
I think you’re right, Dino, Doc wouldn’t be too pleased. He has always gotten left out of the fame of his own car, as people are fixated on the popularity of “Grumpy”.
Jenkins was a brilliant guy, no doubt, and I’d never take anything away from him. But he built a lot of engines, for a lot of people, and to my knowledge, the ‘Arrow is the only car the Jenkins’ groupies have co-opted for themselves as his own. I think that an odd and disturbing fixation of the man. Why was Strickler’s car always Dave’s and their relationship a team effort, but Doc gets ignored? Just weird.
While Jenkins success is undeniable, he for some reason (numerical hoards of GM people out there, I’d guess) seems to get more credit than Glidden, for instance, who won Pro Stock championships with Chevy and Mopar, running those brands only one single year, before continuing on with Ford to virtually dominate the class until NHRA finally figured out how to skew the rules enough to allow GM to dominate again. To me, Glidden’s accomplishments far outweigh Grump’s.
Marco told me he did the car as a tribute to Jenkins, as he was a Jenkins fan himself. Yes; I noticed the differences in the car just from the one picture I’ve ever seen of it. In the end; that car only has to please one man, Marcos. I have to admit I struggle with the idea of making my Dart a kind of tribute to Charlie Allen’s ’66 stretch nose car. i think it was just one of the coolest cars ever, of that short era. But in the end I’ve go to do it my way, for me.
My final thought, irrelevant of this discussion really, is that Jenkins did name the car, and have the initial lettering done on it. I always thought the car looked it’s best that first season. Clean, simple, dramatic, all at once. For those of us who were there and paying attention, Marcos car might be a poor imitation, but at least some folks will get to see some representation of it, and I’m cool with that!
mikey
I agree with both of you. I think that because Jenkins was the first to race the car, he is getting the credit for the whole deal, which is unfair. But I will give you a similarity. Back in my “circle track” days, lets say that I bought a roller, or complete car from Jeff Heotzler. When, after I redid the car, new paint, different number, etc, and brought the car out to the track, it wouldn’t be Mike McDermotts new car, it would be “the old Heotzler car”. Does that make sense to you guys. I know it’s weird, but that’s how it was.
………………….Mikey 😆
