A local guy has a Dana rear that *suposedly* came out of the Black Arrow. This guy got the rear from the guy who *claimed* to have the remains of the car and the housing was from it. People are in the process of tracking down these leads; hopefully they’ll lead to a positive ID on whatever the *RUMORED* Black Arrow shell is or IS NOT. Fred Murphy (the guy that wrenched for Burgess and did the wheelbase surgery) also thinks the car got crushed, after it burned to the ground.
the fed’s CSI has NOTHING on this tribute page
search group 😯 😉 :geek:
You are darn right Bobby! People from within this forum will track down whatever that hidden away ol’ Plymouth shell actually is!!!! There is plenty of rumors and/or theories surrounding it. About time it gets laid to rest.
Da-dah-dah-dahhh!!!! Dover CSI to the rescue!!!
We got a new member of the dover CSI…see what Plain Busted found at John Benson search….put him on this to …he’s Mopar guy too
Dino, us Mopar guys are all a big family as far as I’m concerned. I tracked down the Big John Benson postings and I see that Andy tracked down some info there. Andy had also previously mentioned that he would be watching the Black Arrow mystery unfold. Maybe he is currently more involved than we know? Another friend of mine (also a retired law enforcement professional) is also looking into this Black Arrow stuff. We’ll find out if this reclusive shell is the BA remains or not!
Maybe this is a new twist to the puzzle:
Not sure what they are selling? That is the photo they have on the ad.
1965 Plymouth S/S Black Arrow
1965 Plymouth S/S Doc Burgess’ Jenkins Competition Black Arrow
MYSTERY SOLVED…posted for FUN …not to sell. thats why the stupid price. Larry Curtis that runs this MOPAR Parts Site just “found ” the photo in his piles of old stuff. Thought guys would enjoy seeing. Because to post on his site you have to put a price. He’s currently overhauling the site, that’s why there’s no parts posted.BUT ! How bout the time frame and track shown. Notice Dover on fenders AND it’s got new front fenders ,you guys should be able to place the source. see the lettering… “it’s a Hemi”??? I have seen that someplace .Anyway …good ole Larry says to check out these guys & sources for vintage MOPAR STUFF:
Hines Racing Engines….And JIM CRAMER all these guys in midwest
says he’ll look for more stuff and YES we can show the photo.THANKS LARRY
You guys are just plain silly.
First of all the Black Arrow never had a Dana rear end in it, never. It came with an 8 3/4, and that’s all it ever had in it until we took it out of the car to put in the replica. It went to Consolodated a COMPLETELY gutted shell with nothing but what little was left of the unit body.
Freddie Murphy can recall things about the car from it’s early days, and probably how the chassis modifications looked, but he didn’t work on or even see the car the last two years it raced, or the following year or two it sat in our shop as a stripped shell.
Somebody needs to sneak on this property and take a few pictures of this shell and be done with it.
The black fenders on the Arrow are when Doc took off the acid dipped stuf and replaced them with fiberglass.
Even the acid dipped doors that were originally on the Arrow were not on the replica we built. Those were sold to some guy out in Washington or Oregon. When we built the replica we bought different doors for a 990 car from Jerry Stein (Teacher’s Pet ’63 max wedge).
edit-dino…Freddy confirmed…no DANA rear..brian asked him
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! who’s confused-ME
Lets get this straight ORIGINAL ARROW – S/S grumpy won with,Doc gets it runs a S/S then hacks it up ,first with nice opened wheel wells to switch back & forth….run S/S and match race. THEN really takes the ax to the wheel wells ,drops in Injected (stacks) motor (I reletter it in his Garage -basement) with funky lettering . Smrtic Family gets it …guts it and body gets crushed. SECOND (called clone) car built for Doc (streetable) this car goes to another guy AND IS lost…any FIND might be this “clone”. NOTE :just got new info from source in Ct. THAT might give ‘garage-barn ‘ location where this CLONE is .Stand by . Did I get it right ????? Still waiting for Fred AND the DOC to chime in too.
Well Dino, you and Drake are closer to Doc than we are these days! I talked to him a few years ago and he’s in N.C. also. His son Robbie was working on a Busch team as I recall. That’s Robbie crawling out of the window of the car in the photo gallery. He may be up near Moorsville. I’d love to hear from him again. I’m affraid I’ve lost his contact information.
Last time we talked we were discussing how everyone always calls the ‘Arrow Jenkins car, a constant source of irritation to Doc. Grumnpy never owned it. Doc bought the car from Bud Faubel who delivered it to Jenkins shop to do the motor. But Doc’s name was the only one ever on the title until we bought it. Jenkins only drove it because Doc’s veteranarian business kept him from traveling to the distant events. I had talked to him about doing a magazine article about the true history of the car to set the record straight. Not for our family; whose time with the car was insignificant compared to the vitories it had earlier, but for Doc’s record.
Doc was a good guy; his wife Helen was great too; great sense of humor, and always in good spirits when I saw her. A nice family; I was proud to know them.
😆 😆 😆 HEY BILL & GARY…WELL “GOLL-LEE”… @THE LOCATION OF MY PRESENT ABODE…THE ‘OL BASEBALL ARM AIN’T WHAT IT USED TO BE…BUT I CAN EASILY THROW A ROCK INTO MOORESVILLE…(I’M RIGHT ON TOWN LINE)…MAYBE IF WE CAN GET ANDY/”PLAIN BUSTED”…ON THE “CASE”…I CAN MAKE THE “CONTACT” FOR YOU…IN-BETWEEN MY DAY/EVENING “JOBS”…SWEEPING OUT THE TOWER @ JC LEAZER’S “DIRTY ‘MO”- MOORESVILLE DRAGWAY…HE’S BEEN RIGOROUSLY “TRAINING” ME TOO IN THE FINE “ART” OF REDNECK…YA’ KNOW CARRYING A SODA BOTTLE TO EMPTY MY “CHEW”..SLURRING MY WORDS… FAST… SO AT LEAST I “SOUND” AS IF I SPEAK A THIRD WORLD LANGUAGE…THEN AT LEAST… A FEW DAYS A WEEK…GOTTA’ BRING THE COFFEE OVER TO JACK “ROACH” (ROUSH)’S PLACE…HE’S HARDLY EVER THERE..BARELY ACKNOWLEDGES YOU WHEN HE IS…BUT EVERY ONCE IN AWHILE NEEDS SOMEONE TO CARRY HIS “BAGS” (OR EMPTY THE TRASH BARREL) TO THE AIRPORT…IN-BETWEEN MY PRETTY MUCH “DAILY” DUTIES…COULD MAYBE “LOCATE”…THE DVM… RACIN’ DOC..IF ANDY…AKA SUPER/SLEUTH CAN GET US SOME INFO…YOU CAN SEE I’M A PRETTY “BUSY” GUY…MIGHT HAVE ANOTHER “JOB”… REAL SOON…SELLING APPLES ON A CORNER…SAW A GUY IN THE PAPER ON WALL STREET DOING IT THE OTHER DAY..SO ONCE AGAIN..I’M NOT A INNOVATOR!!!…DEPENDING ON THE OUTCOME OF WALLSTREET/WACHOVIA EPISODES…I MIGHT HAVE TO “CHALLANGE” YOU GUYS’ TO A NOSTALGIA FUNNY CAR WHEELBARROW MATCH RACE!!! IT’LL HAVE TO TAKE “PLACE” IN-BETWEEN (MY WHEELBARROW WILL BE DUAL PURPOSE) THE “APPLE SELLING” ENTERPRISE…”TALK” TO YA’ SOON…DRAKE 😆 😆 😆
As for Doc and his wife helen, it looks like they are at:
Robert & Helen Burgess……
(edit-dino: lets just say “down south ” at an undisclosed safe location…protecting Doc’s privacy ,see later post by me)
Andy Is GOOOOOD at this , still has his Dick Tracy Crimestoppers notebook
Well how about that! I didn’t know you were right there. If you see the Cagnazzi team (Jeg’s) there testing, go over and say hi to Roy Simmons and introduce yourself if you don’t already know him. He is a great guy; one of the really good ones in racing today. We met him a long time ago when we were doing carbon fiber work on the Dodge pro stock truck program. We’ve worked with him ever since. It breaks our heart that we have to help Chevy guys beat our Mopars, but pro stock is so perverted from its early days we really don’t care much anymore anyway. Today’s super stocks are like pro stock in the early days (in fact, most of them would be illegal for Pro/S)! We were the reason NHRA came out with a mid year rule revision which called out what alloy and how may grams each engine component had to weigh; we were building carbon fiber internal engine componenets and they found out about them. I thought we’d be able to retire on that one, and NHRA screwed us again! We’re doing some other stuff in carbon that have been on a couple of the cars for 5 or 6 seasons now and NHRA tech hasn’t found them yet; so that part is still fun!
I didn’t mean to ramble, I had a couple of things to mention here.
Most recall how drivers during those wild match race days, all had nicknames. We all know Mongoose, Snake, Big Daddy, etc. Lesser more prevalent ones like “Wild” Bill were everywhere. Bob Harrop was know as “The Arab” (how would that fly today?) Doc tried that for a short time and came up with “Stormin’ DVM”! Not quite as catchy as he’d hoped, I think! it was lettered on the car for a short time, I think when the wheels first got shoved forward and the wheelwell had a funny arch to it, tapering in the front the same as it was at the rear.
We won S/S eliminator at Dover one weekend, and as a joke, Bill decided to put “Mild” Bill instead of “Wild” Bill on the paper for who had won.
Well wouldn’t you know it, the one time we get a tiny bit of press, some yeah-who in the editorial office messes up and there in Eastern Drag News for all to see it’s printed “Milo” rather than “Mild”, so the whole idea turned to crap faster than the notion that taxpayers should bail out fat cat politicains who caused the sub prime mess to begin with.
Last thing before I actually have to get something done this morning…I had some friends from high School who moved to Cary, N.C. They said it was an appropriatly named acronym for “Containment Area for Relocated Yankees”!
O.K., just saw the bit with Doc’s address. We’ll write him and see if we can get him on here.
(edit-dino…just TALKED to HIM ON PHONE !…See my posts here concerning that )
😀 😀 😀 HEY GARY-BILL…”BELIEVE” THE CAGNAZZI GUYS MOSTLY TEST @ FARMINGTON…KEN BLACK WHO OWNS THE SUMMIT ANDERSON/LINE TEAM…STRUCK A “DEAL” WITH THE LEAZERS’ @ MOORESVILLE…HE PAID TO HAVE TRACK GROUND (START TO FINISH) & RESURFACED (THEIR SHOP IS RIGHT NEXT DOOR IN A INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX)…THE “DEAL” IS THEY USE IT ANY TIME THEY WANT TO “TEST”…EVEN HAD A NHRA GUY TO SHOW ‘EM HOW TO SPRAY THE TRACK…’OL KEN BLACK..HE “DON’T” FOOL AROUND!!! (GOTTA’ LOVE THEM COWBOY HATS).’COURSE KEN CAN WEAR WHATEVER HE WANT$…YOU GET THE IDEA… DID “ASK” HIM THOUGH…HE DON’T NEED NO “STINKIN” OLD FORD LOSER TO SWEEP HIS FLOORS…OR CARRY HIS BAGS!!!…DON’T KNOW OR HAVEN’T MET ROY @ CAGNAZZIS’…LEAZER AIN’T “TAUGHT” ME MUCH ‘BOUT CAROLINA BUSINESS YET…WE’RE WORKING ON THE TWO AFORMENTIONED “FACETS” FIRST…BUT’S LET’S JUST SAY…APPEARANCES…COULD FOOL YA’ (HE BE A “SLICK” ‘OL REDNECK)…HEY MAYBE ‘DEM CAGNAZZI GUYS COULD USE COFFEE,ETC. NOW & THEN…I THEN COULD GO BACK TO THE LONG “ISLANDISE” LANGUAGE…I MISS SO MUCH..THE HEAD “CHEESE”…VICTOR CAGNAZZI IS FROM THE “ISLAND”…DON’T KNOW HIM EITHER…A ‘LIL “BUSY” MYSELF TODAY…BIDDING ON SLAMMIN’ MILLER’S OLD ROCKET CAR (THE MUSTANG II)…FIGURED MAYBE THIS IS THE TRUE “PATH” TO…”LOOK MA’…MADE IT… TO THE TOP OF THE WOILD”…’AINT NO SWEEPIN’ THE TOWER OR BRINGIN’ THE “ROACH” COFFEE…LET ALONE TAKING OUT ANY TRASH…TODAY…BUSY…”BIG BOY” IN THE SEA (OR IS IT CESSPOOL??!!)OF “HIGH” FINANCE… 😆 😆 😆 DRAKE P.S. EZ FARMINGTON ‘BOUT 1/2 HOUR WAY…DON PLEMMONS A NICE GUY RUNS IT…HIS “NECK” NOT QUITE AS RED AS THE LEAZERS’…