IN Respect FOR the Good Doctor’s Privacy AS THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM …capable of being viewed by the Entire Internet I have Editted out the exact location /Phone info of “DOC ” Burgess from: bothersome , prank, scam or overzealous Mopar freaks. Andy “has ” his ways ,of getting the info ,But in this case , I’ve decided to delete some his EXCELLENT “Dover CSI” investigation results. I HAVE used the Info TO CONTACT DOC DIRECT AND JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH HIM> He was quite surprised to hear from me but was involved with something….said he’d check out the site >WHEN he does THAT and IF he registers on the forum THEN we’ll have the capability of some dialogue. I’m tying to not to overstep people’s Right to choose if they would like to be contacted.
😀 😀 😀 HEY DINO…WAS JUST THINKIN’…LAST TIME YOU CALLED…I WAS “INVOLVED” IN SOMETHING…YEAH…THAT’S RIGHT…I WAS BIDDING ON A BUILDING ON PERFORMANCE ROAD (IN FORCLOSURE) IN MOORESVILLE RIGHT NEXT TO THE DRAGSTRIP…AND ACTUALLY WITHIN 1320 FEET OF KEN BLACK’S SUMMIT/GREG ANDERSON/JASON LINE SHOP…IT WAS YOUR “ILL-TIMED “DIS-TRACTION… THAT MOST PROBABLY CAUSED MY LOSS OF “FOCUS”…MY GENEROUS BID CONSISTING ONE 1954 WILLIE MAYS BASEBALL CARD,ONE SLIGHTLY WORN ORIGINAL DOVER DRAG STRIP T-SHIRT (ONLY “SMALL” STAINS UNDER-ARMS)…AND A MOST PRECIOUS AWARD FROM THE “LATE” WESTCHESTER NEWSPAPER-REPORTER DISPATCH..A LEGENDARY… NOS… EXACTO KNIFE…AWARDED TO ME BACK IN THE 50’S…AS A NEWSPAPER BOY…FOR PROCURRING THE MOST “NEW CUSTOMERS”…MY BID FELL JUST SHORT…SOME OTHER “CAT” JUST “WROTE” 300-SOMETHING ON A CHECK..AND HE WAS A WINNAH’…CAN YA’ IMAGINE???… IF IT WEREN’T FOR YOUR “INTRUSIVE” CALL…I COULD’VE UPPED THE “ANTY”…HEY,AND LET’S NOT GET INTO THE FACT THOSE “NEW” CUSTOMERS FOR THE DISPATCH WERE “BOGUS”…MADE-UP NAMES & ADDRESSES (I JUST CANCELLED THEIR “SUBSCRIPTIONS”…THE NEXT WEEK…AFTER I WAS AWARDED THE EXACTO…)…IT’S ABSOLUTELY “IRRELEVANT” IN THE YEAR 2008…SO NO “HARD FEELINGS” HERE FROM ME TO YOU..SORTA’ LIKE FORGIVENESS= DIVINENESS…!!!…SO NEXT TIME…USE YOUR FAX FIRST…OH FORGOT…IT DON’T WORK!!! SEE YOU& OL’ JACK REDD…SOONER THAN YOU THINK..”LIFE’S A LEMON”…I WANT MY…MONEY…BACK…!!!..I “STOLE” THAT FROM MEATLOAF…”MR.MEAT” TO YOU..OR IS IT “MR.LOAF”??…HERMAN ADAY TO RESIDENTS’ OF WILTON,CONNECTICUT ONLY…DRAKE 😀 🙁 😀 😆
DRAKE in due respect to your humorous post here and assume the result of WAY too much coffee .WHAT does this even Remotely have to do with this subject ….Trying to keep the guys On Topic…And I do ….believe me….enjoy ….your vast recall of info and the fun way you write. We all look forward to the latest “report’ from the Drake-man. Keep it up ! So in keeping with the way this thread has gone…and since I JUST talked to The Black Arrow -Man himself AND since He’s ‘closer to us than you think And since We need an Excuse to finally hook up and laugh at each others Grey Hair…Lets Go visit the REAL Doc Burgess ….IF he’ll have two old Dover Guys over to his new “ranch” ….His call….His time and …. If ya give me 10 bucks ….I’ll buy you lunch. Hey… Dino … Always trying ….now about that deal you lost……..MY fault?
Hadn’t even thought about how these things get out of hand; good call to do what you did. I’ll PM you with all our personal contact info if you’d be kind enough to pass it along to Doc for us. We’d love to hear from him again. We’re scheduled to visit VCR this winter to do some in house work for them, so it’d be a great time to meet with all you guys in that area as well. Who know’s; the Dart might even be ready to go to paint by then!
😀 😀 😀 HEY DINO…THIS BE MY “LAST” MESSAGE FOR AWHILE AT LEAST…KINDA’ BEEN IN “CRISIS” THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS…FOR REAL… THE WALLSTREET/WACHOVIA “MELTOWN”…POTENTIALLY HAS THE “DRAKESTER” IN A “STEAMING KETTLE OF FISH”…NO MATTER WHAT… WE’LL GET BY…JUST DIDN’T “HUMP” IT FOR THE LAST 40 YEARS…6-7 DAYS AWEEK…70-80 HOURS A WEEK TO “GET BY”…I’M SURE YOU HAVE A “PULSE” ON THAT…FOR YOU “STUMPY”…I GLADLY SEE YA’ FOR LUNCH..AND I’LL PAY (‘TILL THEY REPO MY AMEX GOLD)FOR THE SMRTIC/STORM KING GUYS…I JUST MIGHT “TAKE A DRIVE” TO BLUEGRASS COUNTRY (KENTUCKY) FOR THE SAME PURPOSE…THEY…ARE THE “REAL” RACERS’…ALWAYS HAVE BEEN…ALWAYS WILL BE…AND GREAT GUYS’ TO BOOT…OF THE “BLACK ARROW” GROUP… LET’S NOT FORGET FREDDIE MURPHY…ONE HELL-A-VA’ GUY WITH A HEART AS BIG AS ALL OUTDOORS…FREDDIE CAME TO OUR “RESCUE” A NUMBER OF TIMES AS “NEIGHBORS” IN PAWLING/DOVER PLAINS..IT’LL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN…BY ME…I’M FOREVER IN HIS DEBT ONLY, ….FOR MY LONG “LOST” PALS’ THE SMRTICS’…WHO I’D LITERALLY DO ANYTHING FOR…WOULD I FORWARD INFO TO…FOR ME “BIG BOY” I PREFER TO “HANG” WITH REAL PEOPLE…AND GUYS THAT HANG ON TO DOCTOR…COLONEL..ESQUIRE..”HANDLES”…AIN’T “REAL” TO ME…”TALK” TO YOU IN A FEW DAYS OR SO… 😀 😀 😀 DRAKE
DOC ‘s on the forum now ….see “Where are They Now’ hope he kept a scapebook.
whatever happened to the Dover CSI dude checking out that mystery car?
Been wondering about that myself! Hasn’t been any updates in quite some time now.
I never saw the body sitting at the scrap yard. But I have been told that NYS law forbid anything that came through thier gates from being resold/removed. That said, if it was in there, I’m sure it was scrapped. I believe Doc already had the “clone” at that time. When I moved to Tn., I ran my Pro Stock Duster in Al. a few times before selling it to a guy in Nashville, Tn. less motor & trans. My partner on the Pro Stock duster, Richie, bought the clone from Doc, and put the pro stock motor in it. He only ran it a few times before selling it. Richie did have a touch of larceny in him though, and it would not surprise me if he sold it as the “Arrow”. My brother Gary has managed to run into a few people that have been associated with that car. Jim Kramer had it for a while (Kramer Automotive) up around Chicago. Then the Helmuth ? Bros. had it ( it was in one of the Mopar Performance catalogs a few years back). There is a car done up as the “Arrow” on the show circuit now, don’t know if he thinks he has the real deal or if he built a clone also. As Forrest said ” that’s all I know about that”.
ps pretty sure it did have the vin tag pop riveted to the door
More info on Car! ….Motor?, Et, Mph , what year photo taken?…driven by ?,ran against who ? where’s car now?……. whats that funny bracket in front of ingenoius catch-can? POST Here as NEW topic ….Ah Yes!…” car in back” ….Black Arrow
What remains of the BlackArrow, built by Bill Smrtic, is in my possession and has been for 25 years. I bought the car from the Helmick Brothers in Ohio, at this point it had the dana that the other member referred to. At the time I bought it, it was being raced as a SS/BA. I bought it less the motor and tranny. I had been racing my 1969 Road Runner at Connecticut Dragway which closed two weeks after purchasing the Arrow. I had plans on racing SS/BA, it wouldn’t certify in the condition that it was in. I had the car completely updated to run Super Stock. I purchased a completely built aluminum head hemi with intentions to go racing. My plans on racing were cut short by marriage. Ever since its purchase it has resided inside a closed garage, and dreams of racing it are still alive. I would enjoy hearing from Bill Smrtic. I have talked to Freddy Murphy on numerous occasions, he has filled me in on the early years of racing with Doc and all the different tracks they raced at and all the famous cars they competed against. I recently purchased the original Hilborns from the Arrow that were on a shelf in his shop since they were removed from the car. Fred Murphy also gave me quite a few pictures of him and Doc with the car. I would like to hear from anyone who has information on the car, since my purchase I have talked to 5 of the previous owners. Also talked to Marco Decarsis (or how ever you spell his last name) who was at York US 30 reunion with the tribute car.
WELCOME TO THE FORUM ……AND THANK YOU FOR SOLVING THE Mystery! I’m Sure “Stormy” Will BE Chiming In On this One AND we would Sure like to see some Photos!……Dino 😆
My brother Bill (Storm King 2 )the second and last owner of the original Black Arrow, will be here shortly with some info.
Ahh, where do I start. First, I am glad to know who has the car. It really served us well, went straight went under the record several times, and was pretty low maintainance. If there is any doubt that it is the clone I can tell you a few places to look. It never had a dana when I ran it. Also I don’t believe the leaf springs were the standard hemi springs. It didn’t leave the line like most hemi cars. Typically the whole body would rise evenly. On the Arrow & the clone they sat nose low, & the nose came up more than the rear on acceleration. While the other hemi cars were raising up, it would jump out a car length while the front was coming up. Lord I would like to experience that again!! It had a street hemi in it when I sold it to Doc. I put a rod out the side of the block on the original motor at Conn. Dragway. We replaced it with a Ramchargers engine, built by Dan Knapp. John “the Voice of Drag Racing” Lundberg talked Dan into selling us another customers engine ( just found that out this year). When I originally bought the car from Doc I got everything pertaining to the car. The fibreglass was on the car, but I also got all of the original acid dipped factory sheet metal, & both the cross ram & carbs, & the Hilborn that was on it. (will post photo’s of the day we picked it up soon) When Doc put the glass doors on the car they used the window frames off the factory doors. When I built the clone I bought a clean set of doors from Jerry Stein (Teachers Pet). Sold the originals to somebody out west. I believe the Hilborn went to someone in Oregon, so unless Doc had a second set ??? Now when Doc decided to sell the clone,my former partner Richie Walsh bought it. Richie then bought my share of the Tritak motor that was in our Pro Stock Duster, & dropped it in the clone with the original cross ram, & aluminum heads. He may have put the 4 spd out of the Duster in it, I don’t know as I had moved to Tn. He only tried to run it a couple of times then sold it. Over the years since then my brother would get a lead on who had the car, but that was before the inter-net. Thats the rough history as I know & remember it. If there is anything I can help you with just let me know & I’ll do what I can. By the way, have you talked to Richie Walsh or Doc Burgess as they have both owned that car also. I bet doc has some interesting stories about on the street.