THE Shelby Mustang- Dover Guy Connection

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  • #10245
    dino
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts: 11491

    AS part of my Research in doing the Big Video…It’s becoming More apparent That Dover Racers ,were a major influence in Drag Racing-Speed Equipt-and motorsports developement ….Moroso being an obvious example.There is alot more that I’ll be “reporting” on . But Back to THIS Heading. …Now everybody remembers the Shelby Mustang conversions that started in 1965 ,thanks to ol’ Carrolls success on the road race curciut .They were built in some funky quiansit huts out at LA ariport. BUT …Little did I know, til today That a whole lot of input to those Mustangs and the later ’66 versions and the Hertz Shelby’s were due to a Dover regular and racer -John Sachs. He was called in a number of times as mechanic ,trouble shooter, tech advisor, and helped close the Ford -Hertz deal. AS I get more info …stay tuned for the rest of the story.

    #23177
    jackman
    Participant
    • Total Posts: 76
    #23184
    dino
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts: 11491

    Well …guess they’ll need John again to fix things…Ford Cheapened the Shelbys in ’66 taking out the Koni’s, Detroit Locker and Holley carb…replaced with”autolite”…Johns gonna fill me in and we’ll finish the story.

    #23198
    paul-ceasrine
    • Total Posts: 528

    DINO,,
    That would be a great read in history.
    The 65′ Shelby GT350,,was raw and race-ready. Really the best Shelby produced.
    John was involved with the inception of the car?
    One of the first articles about the Shelby, was in February 1965 Motor Trend magazine.
    They called it “pretty much a brute of a car”.
    Great road-racing stuff on the 65′,,,especially the SCCA B Production Championships.
    Anybody got a shovel,,we can go back to Adams Street, Bedford Hills and start digging up that buried Shelby 😮
    Paul

    #23269
    fredrice
    • Total Posts: 25

    Dino,
    Dug mine up….here it is running at Dover time trials about 1971 just after paint….Clem LaChance (Mad Frenchman) laid on the Wimbledon White with Guardsman Blue stripes…# 6S1534 it now resides in Australia…I still have the inner fender apron with the Shelby to Ford serial correlation. Got hit by a snowplow in Pawling and the LF fender and inner apron was replaced.
    Man I went through alot of cars!

    Fred

    #23273
    dino
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts: 11491

    Going to Call John and take a LOT of notes. Next Chapter coming Soon.

    #23347
    paul-ceasrine
    • Total Posts: 528

    Fred,
    Nice 66′.. Always liked the side-rear window openings..and fresh-air vents.
    Just what was the true performance of those cars in the quarter-mile.
    I met Mel Burns (Mel Burns Ford),,Mel and son Mike had a 65′ GT350, they were the AHRA record holder with a 289 GT-350 in B/Sports back in late 65′, sponsored also by ‘Performance Associates’.
    Paul

    #23371
    dino
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts: 11491

    CHAPTER TWO:
    John says that he really didn’t contribute that much…but I beg to differ.Ya see the Ford guys were trying to get the Hertz folks to buy & rent the Shelbys. The Hertz headquarters were in Jersey and Larsen Ford was becoming a leading (Later the largest) sellers of the Shelby conversions in the country.. So it made sense to get the principles together at a convieniant location and give the Hertz boys a “Test Drive” to swing the Deal. Where else but at Larsen Ford. Now these 271 Hi-po first editions in 65 were cool. Detroit Locker Rears ,Sintered Metallic Brakes , Holley Carbs,….the first ones had no back seat & you could actually be competitive on a road course. Antisway bars and real Traction Masters. So here come the “suits” from Hertz to get their Thrill ride.Well,they ALL pile in and away they go …Kolb probably scarin the pants off them .When the come back …Kolb says …”we Got A problem” -To John.”They don’t like the fact ,every time we go over a bump ,there’s this loud clunking noise.” John sticks the Mustang on a lift and sees that the Traction Masters have a too long Bolt that hits the Frame, with a load of people . Hertz didn’t like the “liability “of them hanging down too low-might hit things like speed bumps -so Ford moved them up. That made the bolts hit. So’s he runs down to the parts place ,cuts down some bolts-fixes the problem and Bingo-Hertz signs the Deal. He Later went to the Shelby complex in Ca. to help fix the 427 overheating problems. Another Fixer-upper was Hertz complaining that the cars were crashing .Saying the brakes wouldn’t stop the cars. Well ya got to heat the Metallic brakes up for them to work.The rental customers didn’t know that .So Larsen and other dealers had to change out hundreds of rear brake pads at the fleet lot at LaGaurdia with organic pads.
    In ’66 Ford “took” over and changed things …trying to lower the cost…No more Konis and the the other good stuff.
    Our John was kept Busy At The Larsen Ford Hi-Performance Dept.

    #23372
    dino
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts: 11491

    Oh -John also related how in ’67 the wheels kept falling off. Seems the chamfer on the wheels didn’t match the lugs. OPPS. Larsen and other dealers were kept busy doing the Recall on that one .Had a few accidents wake up that problem
    They also had to change out the rear panel where the exhaust pipes cameThrough. Seems the Gas filler was mounted to that cast piece and it got REAL hot.A couple of splash backs while refilling hitting that red hot panel must have surprised a few folks .can you say BOOM-or FIRE… “Back to the Dealer’ .

    #23374
    dino
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts: 11491

    Gona back track a bit.John was Hired to run the New Larsen Ford Dept, after doing so much work for the dealership at his B&J Automotive.Thats where he ran his first gassers out of.The Hi-Po Dept was really an old AMC Dealership across from B.Altman in White Plains. He even kept his Anglia there. well it is a English Ford.

    #23378
    paul-ceasrine
    • Total Posts: 528

    DINO,
    Great stuff. Besides running the Dover Store as ‘CEO’, your also the ‘Managing Editor’, and lead ‘Writer’..Who cleans up the place? 😆
    Great Shelby history. Got me reading the Motor Trend article. 1965 GT350 with 5.13 Schieffer gears and headers on the 289/306HP engine,, ran 13.15 in 65′ in AHRA B/Sports.
    Damn Nice Car ,,that 65′. Very respectable times. Those times in 1965, would have made that
    a ‘Killer Car’ in B/Stock at Dover in 65’….Look out GTO’s.
    Paul

    #23395
    dino
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts: 11491

    We ran my brothers 66 GT350H in C/Sp…..Won class at Atco once…….Oh- and since it just Me now at the shop with wife assisting….I even get to vacuum- and take out the garbage…..Many hats

    #23398
    bossguy
    • Total Posts: 544

    Dino, is one of those hats a Davy Crockett coon skin hat? 😆

    #23409
    fredrice
    • Total Posts: 25

    Re: THE Shelby Mustang- Dover Guy Connection
    by Paul Ceasrine on Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:58 pm

    Fred,
    Nice 66′.. Always liked the side-rear window openings..and fresh-air vents.
    Just what was the true performance of those cars in the quarter-mile.
    I met Mel Burns (Mel Burns Ford),,Mel and son Mike had a 65′ GT350, they were the AHRA record holder with a 289 GT-350 in B/Sports back in late 65′, sponsored also by ‘Performance Associates’.
    PaulPaul Ceasrine
    King of the Hill

    Posts: 287
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 11:19 am

    Thanks Paul,
    Like has been mentioned the GT-350 could get into the low 13’s. I know that while I had mine I had a hoot driving it. My car in the picture was the first trip out with it. Fresh engine with Roller Rockers otherwise stock. I had put 15.70 on the window not knowing what it would run. Obviously I broke out. Really love those old Mustangs/Shelbys.

    Fred

    #23416
    paul-ceasrine
    • Total Posts: 528

    Fred,
    No one really knows what a base-stock GT350 would run. DINO would definitely know,,
    he won at ATCO 😀
    Unfortunately I wasn’t at Dover until Spring 68′. So I missed the GT350H Rent-A-Cars.
    Only documented stuff, is that Car & Driver tested a 289/306HP with 4.11 gears, and got it to 14.10’s @ 100mph. But, it wasn’t really a production car. True or more realistic
    numbers for an unmodified GT-350 w/4.11 gears sounds more like 14.90’s @ 95mph.
    Drake would probably know too. At least he would know the Top Speed around
    Lake Glenieda :lol
    BOSSGUY,,you must have some K-Code info…
    Paul,,,Go K-Code..

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